Open for business

Greetings and welcome to the opening of Whispers’ Cellar, an excellent BYO establishment! 😆

The Cellar will be a successor to Michael Taylor’s excellent Café Whispers. You may have noticed the look and feel here is very similar to that at the Café. This is on purpose so that contributors and lurkers quickly feel at home.

While we are a “left-leaning” group, genuine contributors are always welcome. We are independent and of course we’re biased – get used to it. 😀

To minimise spam and “illwillians” (© TT from TPS), the site has been setup so that all contributors must have their first comment approved before it will be posted. Please be patient with us during the first week or so – Florence & Bacchus will be busy approving comments as soon as they can.

Social Media
We can be found on Twitter – @WhispersCellar
and Facebook – https://www.facebook.com/whisperscellar?ref_type=bookmark

Authors
Anyone who has an article they would like published is welcome to submit it for consideration of publication. We are also seeking more regular authors.

Regular feature
We’re going to have a page for letting everyone know what’s happening on other blogs – Around the blogs. If you see something elsewhere you think readers here may find interesting, this will be a place to post it.

Contact us / feedback
On the menu bar at the top of the page we have a ‘Contact Us’ page for your suggestions and feedback or to let us know you have articles for publication. (https://whisperscellar.wordpress.com/contact-us/). Constructive suggestions on how we can make the site better for you are always welcome!

LET THE GAMES BEGIN!

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95 comments on “Open for business

  1. Very quiet start – this is a good thing! Someone said there is some sort of cooking show on tonight 😉

  2. Evening Bacchus, and Florence 🙂

    I wish you well with your new endeavour, and will let my readers know you’re open for business 😉

    Good luck 🙂

    Cheers 😀

  3. Could not find comment bar at first. Now in business I hope you do not mean the same, as Abbott does, when you say we are open for business.

  4. Congratulations on re-opening…
    I mightn’t comment very often but am a frequent visitor and have missed the interesting conversations here very much.

  5. Welcome ananda1955! Glad to see you found the place. (it was only downstairs from the Café 😉 )

    I’ll be up your way to check out some whales next week – I hope you can put on some weather like we’re having now 😉

  6. Hi Bacchus, Florence and everyone else.

    Congratulations and wishing you every success with the new Cellar. Have added it to favourites as I did not know it was up and running until checking in again at the Café this morning.

    Hopefully you will be happy to have me as an author to be able to contribute when the time and issue drives me to contribute rather than just comment.

  7. Hi Shane, welcome and good to see you found your way here.

    You should have received an invitation to become an author at the Cellar in your email from whisperscellar. Let me know if you haven’t got it & I’ll resend it to you.

  8. Shane,

    I sent the original invitation on 28th. I’ve just sent you another invite now to that place where Rex lives 😉

  9. What I am stunned about is the unemployed being forced to apply for 40 jobs per month and also work 25 hours per week. Have just been reading where they expect those hours to be worked and am simply amazed. there will be many small businesses go under as a result of free labour being provided in areas wher ethey operate. Painting, Lawn mowing, Rubbish Clearing, etc etc. So much for being the party of small business.

  10. Interesting doing the maths on those 40 jobs/month X number of unemployed in various age groups too Shane. Gotta go out for a bit now – I’ll see if I can dig the figures up later, if someone else doesn’t beat me to it 😉

  11. What does applying for forty jobs really mean? Does it meanJ jobs that have been advertised. One would be lucky to find this many. Most job seekers would do so, without this regulation. Does it mean ringing, emailing or texting every firm within our region, asking if they have vacancies. Have never seen that to work. Seen my grandson a year or so ago, visit every firm within the industrial park near where we live. Spent the day, going from door to door. Did not get one offer, or even anyone that interest. Let his resume and details with all. Not one reply.

    Surely if the job provider they are sent to, cannot find jobs that are available, what is their role?

  12. Bacc’s and Florence…. woo hoo, great to see this place up and running ( even if it’s only BYO and no bar nibblies) 😀
    One wonders if employers will now have to employ someone to take care of all the job app’s coming their way. I imagine that applicants will need to have their application signed off by someone :/ ……. talk about extra red tape 🙄
    Abbott and Co. are the worst government with the worst idea’s this country has ever had……. I dispair for those whom, thru no fault of their own, are on the unemployment line……. a line that will grow under this inept mob 😡

  13. Welcome to the Cellar LOVO 🙂 Pull up a stool and help yourself to your favourite BYO drop. :mrgreen:

  14. I can’t find the calculations on the number of job applications that would be generated by the government’s latest “brain fart” – I saw it on twitter – some clever person had calculated the number of unemployed in each of the different age groups by the number of job applications required (it varies depending on age). Not everyone classified as unemployed is on Newstart either.

    If you take round figures like 700,000 unemployed by 40 job applications you get 28 million applications per month. Of course the figure isn’t that high, as explained above, but it was still a ridiculous number that employers would have to deal with.

  15. Today I spent a couple of hours, in one of Gillard’s unwanted school halls. Yes, this area has a yearly singing and dancing show, which all the schools within the postcode perform. Just ordinary every days pubic school kids.

    Very professional show, which I am sure the high quality of the hall contributed to.

    Many of the songs they choose, where about looking after this fine of ours. Some even celebrated the many nationalities that populate this fine nation.

    Yes, these kids appreciate what we now have. Recognise the dangers we face.

    The thought that came to mind, is these same youngster are not going to curse us for leaving a debt for them to pay off, as the Libs keep saying.

    No, they are going to ask, why we were to greedy and miserable, to spend the money that was needed to save the planet. hey will be asking, why we refuse to put in place the technology needed to take this country forwarded. They will be asking, why they have to do the heavy lifting.

    It was just the thoughts that came to me, why watching these wonderful kids, performing, so talented and level headed.]

    Yes, they will be asking why???????

  16. The biggest question they will ask, these mostly infants and primary students, is why did you allow your government to transfer debt and expense that is government responsibility onto our shoulders. Yes, transferring the debt to the future workers of this country, Does seem a little unfair.

  17. Thanks for the welcome Bacchus : ) The weather has been mostly great here. about ten day ago while sitting at a beachside cafe here in torquay, I and many others did see a small Humpback about 500 m out from the beach. the first one i have seen. Florance as a child i remember asking my dad how did they let hitler do what he did. I am now asking myself how did we let abbott become prime minister… hmmmm, seems gullible people far outnumber more savvy people.

  18. One thing that is obvious, is that Abbott and this lousy government have declared war on Australia. on almost everyone and everything in it !

  19. I see that Rio Tinto has sold off the coal assets they acquired only 12 months ago in Mozambique and have made a massive loss as a result. Seems political instability was the major factor. I remember all the right wing nutters screaming at me that the MRRT would drive mining companies to leave and flee overseas. Well guess what it didn’t and they haven’t left and they have had their fingers burnt well and truly. Rio Tinto is a classic example of threats and poor purchasing decisions to try and prove a point. Operating in a stable, democratic, and infrastructure secure country like Australia, despite its higher wages will always be a better alternative than to operate in a politically unstable and corruption ridden country with limited infrastructure. If we had stood firm we would now have the income stream from the MRRT coming online as depreciable assets are nearing their final writedown stage. We would actually be getting a fair return for our noon renewable assets, just like Norway instead of plunging into class warfare and heavy lifting for the poor like the USA.

  20. Spot on Shane!

    I found that article with the number of job applications generated by the government’s idiotic plans:
    http://tasmaniantimes.com/index.php/article/a-miracle-of-job-creation-its-genius

    Acording to Joe Hockey, unemployed youth will have to apply for 40 jobs per month ( SMH ) while other unemployed must apply for 20 or so positions per month. Currently there are some 720,000 unemployed in Australia ( ABS ) competing for about 140,000 vacancies ( ABS ).

    100,000 youth producing 40 applications per month means 4 million applications per month. The remaining 620,000 unemployed (20 applications per month) would deliver a further 12.4 million applications each month, giving a grand total of around 16 million applications per month.


    To review, 16 million applications per month is 192 million applications per year (remember the actual number of vacancies doesn’t matter, what’s important is that there are plenty of unemployed to send applications). If we allow that one person could reasonably review 50 applications per day (less if replies had to be written) or 12,500 per year, that would result in a need for over 15,000 people just to process the applications!!! Each of them would need supervision, management, training, quality assurance, safety and human resources leading to total employment of around 25,000!

  21. There are 780,000 unemployed and the dole is around $500 per fortnight. So this equates to 10,140,000,000 in cost. The LNP are going to roll out Work for the Dole at a cost of 5,100,000,000 over 3 years. So the cost of administering the new system for this period is over 17% of the cost of actually paying the unemployed their benefits for the same period. How ludicrous is this when they claim the payment to the unemployed is unsustainable. What is obviously unsustainable is the stupidity of this proposal.

  22. Born 1941. Remember being taught, that ignoring what was going on, led to Hitler. No one cared. Was also taught, that the 2nd world war proved how fragile democracy is, that one must always be alert, ready to protect it at all time.

    Lessons we seemed to have forgotten, even by people my age.

  23. Why is this govt obsessed with bringing in extreme laws to deal with firstly the unemployed, then all welfare recipients in general,

    Unemployment is not great problem by any stretch of the imagination. Yes, there is big problems with industry not providing entry level jobs for the young. When it comes to New Start, one of the lowest in the western world. Welfare in general, also low, tightly targeted to those in need. Where I the problems this mob say, have to be fixed.

    Why so much emphasis on moral questions, of what these people spend the money on. It is they who choose to go hungry.

    Parents, that spend this money on grog, not the kid, also do he same when working.

    Little to do with being unemployed. If children are being abused or neglected, not the business of Centrelink. The responsibility belongs to the Child protection agencies. Already laws to cover this. Otherwise, it is a health problem. Time for governments to get out of people’s lives.

    Being on welfare, often give drug addicts and alcoholics and their families space to deal with the proble,. Yes, stress of trying to work, in these conditions can bring families down.

    Not Abbott’s nosiness to get kids to school.

    As for Twiggy, does he forget, he is one of the biggest employers where indigenous people face the highest unemployment. Time for him to put his money, where is mouth is. Does not need the government to do it for him.

    A few donations and training for local schools. Train and employ locals, instead of 457s and flying staff in and out.

  24. Why is our welfare system unsustainable, when we spend much less than similar countries.

  25. Bishop still on about the three WA kids that dies. As shocking as that was, there were greater tragedies. Was not a whole family from Victoria wiped out. Have not heard her mention them, or any others for that matter. Flyting back to attend their memorial. No feelings for toe babies we se each night on our TVs. Watching Fox news the other night, when my SIL quickly turned off the TV. Yes, not suitable for infant kids to watch. The fathers, in a line with the swaddled bodies of their babies in their arms, Even little kids would know how sad that was.

    We have Pyne visiting Israel to give a speech. We have Abbott this day, complaining that Hama are shooting across the borders. Trouble, it is not Jewish babies on our screens.

    It is time, that all demand both sides cease the war. Long pass the time to worry about who is to blame. Does not matter anymore. What matters, is bringing peace to the region.

  26. Tony Abbott’s work for the dole scheme doesn’t add up

    As a young minister in the Howard government, as colleagues and pundits weighed up whether he was an ideological oddity or politician of substance, Tony Abbott made his first splash by introducing work for the dole.

    Tapping into a deep vein of hostility towards welfare recipients in the community, he also developed his public profile and honed his predilection for short, rhyming slogans – “earn or learn”, “job snobs”.

    The tabloid headlines about “dole bludgers” have returned. Tabloid talkback is alight with tales of a lost generation of couch-ridden and coddled youth, lazy and content to play video games rather than look for work.

    From next July, unemployed people under the age of 30 will be required to do 25 hours of unpaid labour a week for six months. Those between 30 and 49 will do 15 hours.

    The jobless will also be asked to apply for 40 jobs a month, double the current requirement.

    Repeated failure to comply with the job search standards or turn up to a work-for-the-dole placement could result in the suspension of welfare payments for up to eight weeks.

    “The idea that there are people out there having fun on unemployment payments is just ridiculous,” Australian National University labour market ecnomist Peter Whiteford said.

    “This is policy based on the idea that people are lazy. Is that true? There’s not a lot of evidence.”

    He points out that Australia’s unemployment benefits are the lowest in the industrialised world and that their recipients live well below the poverty line.

    So low is the payment the business community has backed calls for it to be increased by $50 a week.

    Moreover, Australia’s job search criteria are among the strictest in the developed world, according to the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development.

    A Fairfax Media analysis of labour force and census data shows that 3.7 per cent of people aged between 15 and 19 and 6.4 per cent of people aged 20-24 do not work or study.

    This still represents almost 150,000 people, less than it was five years ago, but a concern never theless.

    However, the underlying reasons for the army of unemployed, young and old, are a weak labour market and lack of job opportunities.

    University of Sydney Workplace Research Centre director Professor John Buchanan points out that the latest statistics show there are 146,000 job vacancies for 727,000 people unemployed and 922,100 under-employed.

    “If all the unemployed filled all official vacancies, there would still be 580,900 unemployed”” he said. “That is, over 1.5 million people either unemployed or underemployed.

    “This, and not work-shy welfare recipients, is the problem that needs to be fixed.

    “The challenge is to either boost the demand for labour or to redistribute hours of work to ensure a fairer allocation of employment. These reforms do neither.”

    Indeed, the evidence suggests that work for the dole is the least successful way to get people into employment.

    University of Melbourne Professor of Economics Jeff Borland had studied the Howard government’s work for the dole program and found it had failed.

    “The people who had done work for the dole spent longer on payments in the first 12 months after they had done the program than people who hadn’t done work for the dole.”

    Professor Borland said international research conducted in the US and Europe on similar schemes backed his findings.

    What drove work for the dole was politics, not policy, Professor Borland said.

  27. LOVO, I thought it was.

    Bacchus, nothing about work for the dole adds up. Rehash of Howard’s policy that was a proven failure.

    Biggest problem, it is based on false premises that the unemployed are work shy or are unemployable.

    Once again wrong diagnosis, leading to wrong solution.

  28. Florence,

    I wonder if their inability to make the correct diagnosis stems from the very basis of their ideology? Remember the article Ad Astra wrote last year based on the writing of George Lakoff? (http://www.thepoliticalsword.com/post/2013/12/08/The-myth-of-political-sameness.aspx) Strict Father vs Nurturant Parent models?

    Words from that piece jump out now on seeing what the conservatives are doing:

    Lakoff goes on to cite some words and phrases used over and over in conservative discourse, words that reflect the Strict Father model:

    Character, virtue, discipline, tough it out, get tough, tough love, strong, self-reliance, individual responsibility, backbone, standards, authority, heritage, competition, earn, hard work, enterprise, property rights, reward, freedom, intrusion, interference, meddling, punishment, human nature, traditional, common sense, dependency, self-indulgent, elite, quotas, breakdown, corrupt, decay, rot, degenerate, deviant, lifestyle.

    and

    To assist understanding, Lakoff compares conservative and liberal (progressive) moral systems:

    Conservative categories of moral action:

    1. Promoting Strict Father morality in general.
    2. Promoting self-discipline, responsibility, and self-reliance.
    3. Upholding the Morality of Reward and Punishment.
    a. Preventing interference with the pursuit of self-interest by self-disciplined, self-reliant people.
    b. Promoting punishment as a means of upholding authority.
    c. Ensuring punishment for lack of self-discipline.
    4. Protecting moral people from external evils.
    5. Upholding the Moral Order.

    Liberal categories of moral action:

    1. Empathetic behaviour, and promoting fairness.
    2. Helping those who cannot help themselves.
    3. Protecting those who cannot protect themselves.
    4. Promoting fulfillment in life.
    5. Nurturing and strengthening oneself in order to do the above.

    I strongly recommend another read of this excellent piece by Ad Astra – it resonates more and more as we see what the conservatives are doing.

  29. Yes, that is good advice. Personally I find it hard to give tis government any credit for thinking at all.

    One reads that most of the leading players spent time together, at university, here and Oxford.

    I remembered many young Christian student coming into Western Sydney University.

    Cringe at the word Marx and left the institution with the same beliefs that they entered with. Nothing changing for them.

    I see Abbott and co, picking up some beliefs back then, Unlike most, who over time challenge their beliefs, this did not happen.

    Yes, still clinging to half baked ideas from their uni days. There closed minds, more cemented after university, than before I.

    Along the way, the beliefs became slogans, such as smaller government, debt and welfare cheats that have to be pulled into line. There hate for unions grew.

    So obsessed are they with their earlier beliefs, they have not noticed, that the world has changed, that new solutions are needed. That borders are disappearing fast, as everything is globalised.

    It is definitely not the world of Santamaria or Menzies. Menzies by the way, is never mentioned by this mob.

    I really believe that Gillard recognised these facts, and did know what was needed to take us forwarded. All is being demolished by this mob.

    Yes, later generations are going to condemn us, not for debt, but for being too mean and miserable to spend the necessary money to invest in the future.

    It is not like we do not have the wealth to do so,

  30. They want business to be completely free of any regulations, while regulating the workers into submission,

  31. G’day and congrats – can I get a coffee (not a latte – can’t stand ’em) around here or is that BYO as well?

  32. For esteemed company like you 2353, we’ll delve into the staff petty cash and spring for a coffee 😀 Long black was it? :mrgreen:

  33. Abbott had better things to do, like planting a shrub in a picnic ground along the Georges River.

  34. Well it is nice to know that Abbott and Brandis are both on top of the new policy they are pushing, as a diversion from the budget,

    Of occurs I am joking.

  35. Seems the government is now lurching from crisis, to foot in mouth, to jumping to conclusions, to supporting outdated research for religious values. Support up here for the LNP seems to have evaporated even in rural areas.

  36. Do not forget, did bugger all for the first few months. 7 bills it seems before budget session. Time will only tell with the damage they have done, dismantling departments and other bodies.

  37. Did we pay for anyone to attend World Conference on Families? Andrews is an ambassador. They believe that feminism threatens families among many other outrageous claims. Abets is also obviously a follower.

    Seems to be an organisation that warrants following up.

  38. This article says it all. Take note of the comments.

    …….Since then, however, the complaints about the Abbott office have become broader and louder.

    Ministers, advisers and bureaucrats complain about backlogs of documents and briefings requiring approval or decision. I made an FOI request to try to substantiate these complaints one way or the other, asking for workload reports from the prime minister’s office detailing the number of outstanding documents for decision. After three months, the request was rejected for reasons including that releasing the figures “would not significantly contribute to any debate on a matter of public importance” but would have “a substantial adverse effect on the management of workflow in the prime minister’s office.”

    Officials from the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade complain that public servants have not been taken into many important prime ministerial meetings, sometimes not even note-takers, leaving DFAT to try to piece together what happened by asking political advisers, who have not taken detailed notes. The secretary of the foreign affairs department, Peter Varghese, reportedly flew home early from Abbott’s trip to China. And eyebrows were raised when, before Abbott’s crucial meeting with US president Barack Obama, numerous newspapers reported an observation from “within the prime minister’s travelling delegation” that Obama was “the lamest of lame duck” presidents.

    Most critically, a chorus of senior sources claim the prime minister’s office does not seek, take, or listen to, political advice.

    Some of the country’s best-known conservative commentators are giving theirs anyway, echoing what members of the government are saying privately about the budget dilemma.

    Nikki Savva has concluded that “as a result of its own poor planning and execution, the government has pretty much lost every argument on the budget” and advises that unless it ditches the paid parental leave scheme, the policy will become the “loaded answer” every time opposition parties are challenged to say where they would find alternative budget savings.”

    Dennis Shanahan blames the treasurer, saying “the leitmotiv of Joe Hockey’s first months as Treasurer has ­become that of an aloof plutocrat puffing on a cigar, well-off, politic­ally distant from everyday life, ­indulgent and indulged.”

    Chris Kenny reckons the government is “stuck in a fairness argument they invited upon themselves but can never win”, arguing it is unreasonable to make “dollar for dollar comparisons” because transfer payments to low and middle income earners come from taxes paid by the rich,

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/08/everyone-has-a-piece-of-advice-for-tony-abbott-some-of-it-could-even-help?CMP=twt_gu&commentpage=1

  39. Is Abbott losing it everywhere?

    ………..Noel Pearson, a long-standing columnist with The Australian newspaper and the publication’s reigning ‘Australian of the Year’ award winner has told an Abbott Government cabinet minister to ‘f*ck off’ and ‘get the f*ck out of our campsite’ during a heated exchange at an iconic Aboriginal festival in the Northern Territory.

    The altercation occurred shortly after Pearson and a group of Aboriginal leaders delivered a presentation on a trial Aboriginal governance model to hundreds of people at the Garma Festival, a cultural event staged over the weekend in Arnhem Land.

    Nigel Scullion, the Minister for Indigenous Affairs, had attended the presentation and was walking past the campsite where Pearson and his group were staying. Witnesses say Scullion was urged to join the group.

    The Minister was asked by Pearson for his views on the Empowered Communities model – Scullion, as minister, has responsibility for whether or not the pilot project eventually gets funded (it was provided $5 million by the previous Labor government to write a report on the model).

    Witnesses, all of whom requested anonymity, report that Scullion expressed some reservations about the strategy, and noted that he was still waiting on the group’s report.

    One witness, who asked not to be named, told New Matilda that “Pearson’s face completely changed”, before he delivered a tirade of abuse.

    “Scullion goes to the campsite and declares ‘I want to be up front about this’ and said he was unconvinced around the merits of the Empowered Communities concept,” a witness told New Matilda.

    “Pearson expressed disappointment and said he believed they’d spent time briefing him and bureaucrats on the worth of the program, and noted that the [previous] government had already committed $5 million to the project.

    “Scullion maintained that he still wasn’t convinced, and that’s when Pearson lost it.

    “His face changed. I mean, it just completely changed.

    “He said words to the affect of ‘He was sick and f**king tired, despite their best efforts, to brief f**king public servants and politicians, and yet they are still ill-informed regarding [Empowered Communities]’.

    “He used the words ‘f**k off’ and ‘f**k’ quite a few times – there were a lot of f-bombs – and then he told Scullion words to the affect of ‘Get the f**k out of our campsite.’”

    New Matilda understands the altercation occurred in front of around 50 people. Witnesses say Scullion stood up to Pearson, told him to calm down, and then left.

    A spokesperson for Mr Pearson told New Matilda he was unavailable for comment.

    New Matilda was also unsuccessful in gaining comment from Minister Scullion’s office, and from Jawun Indigenous Corporate Partnerships, which hosted the group at Garma and which is guiding the Empowered Communities project…

    Noel Pearson, a long-standing columnist with The Australian newspaper and the publication’s

  40. Labor practice years of fiscal consolidation in their effort to rein the deficit in over years. Why they got trapped into this situation is beyond me, but is history.

    In the middle of last year, they were warned to forget the deficit and draw back. If not, the economy would falter, and unemployment grow. With this news, they loosens the reins.

    Abbott crucified them for that decision made great of Labor’s debt,.

    What Abbott and Co ignored was the advice, to their and out peril I believe.
    They have continued to cut, much more harshly than Labor ever dared.

    What they have ignored, that due to Labor’s good governance there is not fat to cut. They are slicing away at the flesh. Even at this late date, the penny has not dropped with them.

    At the same time, this government has continued to talk down the economy, as they did in Opposition The price is now being paid.

  41. It seems the MSM as well as the likes of Bolt have caught up with many who post on these sites. We still hear Gerard Henderson, a lonely voice making excuse for Abbott and his government,

    Maybe that tipping point has been passed. One can only hope so.

    What are Abbott’s option from now on in.

    Maybe he will dump all, having a massive reshuffle. One never knows.

    He still has a budget, three months down the track, little of no legalisation , that stinks to high heaven.

    Another question, I would love answered is what those 500 plus, he sent overseas have been doing. Especially those from our armed forces.

  42. The Abbott Government’s radical changes to Australia’s university system will significantly increase the cost of university education. Despite promising no cuts to education, Tony Abbott and Christopher Pyne’s unfair Budget has cut $5.8 billion from higher education. This means students will pay a lot more for a university degree and talented students will be put off higher education, threatening Australia’s future prosperity.

    Under Tony Abbott’s higher education changes:

    Commonwealth funding for undergraduate degrees will be cut by up to 37 per cent
    Universities will be able to set their own fees, with the cost of many degrees expected to jump to more than $100,000
    A real, compounding interest rate of up to 6 per cent will be applied to all HECS-HELP debts – including existing debts of past students

    The Australian Labor Party does not believe young Australians should be saddled with debt to pay for Tony Abbott’s broken promises.

    Sign our petition to tell Tony Abbott and Christopher Pyne that their higher education changes are short-sighted and unfair.

    http://www.alp.org.au/debtsentence

  43. One thing for sure, the answer is not, as Hockey and Co seem to believe, cutting from he lower income earners. Will send economy into downfall.

    After listening to Hockey this day, I suspect when they are talking about the poor, their meaning is not the same as ours.

    Mr Hockey, please define what you believe poor to be. While you are at it, where does low income cut off.

    .

  44. Me Hockey, modern day economist believe that inequity leads to a poor economy. It neve revive a poor economy.

    Neville Wran’s daughter arrested for murder.

  45. Bacchus, how much longer do you think they can go without imploding?

    NO one seems to be supporting this government at all. Palmer is enjoying himself.

    Abbott goes overseas. Not seen standing beside anyone any MC, Could have carried the photo op at home.

    I wonder if Kerrie likes Abbott’s explanation of what he has been saying to Bishop and that other Defence minister. Suggest not, as Kerrie, along with Obama are not saying what Abbott said, was told to his ministers.

  46. Abbott will be force to act. Wonder hat he will come up with., Will not be calling DD. Might try massive reshuffle. Could even be rewrite budget.

    I suspect before that occurs, he will try every dirty trick in the book, Everything written into Appropriation bills for starters.

    Of course the Telegraph will play it part.

    Anyone know where Murdoch is,. He would not be in London by any chance.

    Ma7ybe Brandis will put his usual pressure on the Victorian police to pull both Gillard and Shorten in for questioning, except that might be a step to far. Then then one never knows as he is becoming desperate.

    Then maybe those pulling the strings might convince him, it is time to retire. If not, his past will hit the headlines.

    One never knows.

    One thing for sure, something will happen.

  47. Yes, Bacchus, there is much going on that makes no sense. None at all.\

    ……….Media Critiques

    Malaysian press charges Ukraine government shot down MH 17 Printer friendly page Print This ShareThis

    By Alex Lantier, OpEd News

    OEN

    Monday, Aug 11, 2014

    An August 7 article in the New Straits Times, Malaysia’s flagship English-language newspaper, charged the US- and European-backed Ukrainian regime in Kiev with shooting down Malaysian Airlines flight MH 17 in east Ukraine last month. Given the tightly controlled character of the Malaysian media, it appears that the accusation that Kiev shot down MH17 has the imprimatur of the Malaysian state.

    The US and European media have buried this remarkable report, which refutes the wave of allegations planted by the CIA in international media claiming that Russian president Vladimir Putin was responsible for the destruction of MH17, without presenting any evidence to back up this charge.

    The New Straits Times article, titled “US analysts conclude MH17 downed by aircraft,” lays out evidence that Ukrainian fighter aircraft attacked the jetliner with first a missile, then with bursts of 30-millimeter machine gun fire from both sides of MH17. The Russian army has already presented detailed radar and satellite data showing a Ukrainian Sukhoi-25 fighter jet tailing MH17 shortly before the jetliner crashed. The Kiev regime denied that its fighters were airborne in the area, however……..

    http://axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/Article_67273.shtml

  48. If above has any truth, could it be the reason they made it impossible for the rescuers to say in the country,

  49. Have you ever noticed that photos of Mr Abbott taken by overseas media outlets do not give him the “hero light” that the Australian media seem to.
    The photo to which FlorenceNF (@10:47pm) pointed, makes him look like a very tired man being a bit stumped by a question.

  50. Not even getting it right in set up photo op mc. What wonders will we have from this govt. today. I note that DM did not like questions today., Ask how long we can keep limited number of boats patrolling the borders for OSB.

  51. Have the 500+ been bought home or not. If so, why did Abbott need to go overseas to thank them

    What role did the armed defence personnel carry out. How many actually got to do anything?

  52. Mr Hockey you could be right. The $7 is not a tax for going to the doctor. Maybe one can call it a fine, punishment for going to the doctor. You say we go too often. This is the punishment. Punishment for being unemployed, is that you are not allow to smoke or drink. Punishment for being poor, you cannot own a car. Mr Hockey what else have you in store for us. I believe your mob have said, this budget is only the start. There is more to come.

  53. Is it time. to put Turnbull under the microscope. What is the truth when it comes to NBNCO.

    ……………Where does that leave the NBN?

    Now that NBN Co is considering the inclusion of FTTN, HFC and FTTB there is a need to revisit the capacity and congestion problem because with this multi-technology mix congestion will be a lot worse than if FTTP were utilised. In 2011 NBN Co released network design rules that clearly addressed the capacity and congestion problem by providing ample infrastructure to cope.

    In NBN Co’s recently updated NBN for Business Product Fact Sheet the AVC Traffic Class 1 (primarily voice calls) performance capacity utilisation is set to remain less than or equal to 70 per cent. But how will this be achieved over FTTN, HFC or FTTB………

    http://www.businessspectator.com.au/article/2014/8/14/technology/choking-one-lane-nbn-freeway?utm_source=exact&utm_medium=email&utm_content=861885&utm_campaign=kgb&modapt=

  54. A few facts for Mr Hockey.
    Lets assume that an average family drives 500km per week covering work ( or looking for jobs and interviews if unemployed), children and school, appointments, shopping for food and paying bills. Necessities not niceties.
    Their car takes 10litres to travel 100km. at $1.50 per litre the cost is $3,900 per annum.
    On a salary of $100,000 that equates to 5.34% of net income. For a necessity
    On a salary of $50,000 that equates to 9.46% of net income. For a necessity
    On unemployment that equates to 27% of net income. For a necessity

    Now Mr Hockey please explain how your new petrol tax is progressive and not regressive

  55. Very telling analysis there Shane! Puts it very easily in perspective.

    Another issue that’s been spoken about in the last few days is falling real wages – wages as a share of real national income is still falling. Bill Mitchell has an excellent article on his blog this week, dealing with this – Real wages falling and Treasury continues to deceive.

    Also related to this – billionaire Nick Hanauer was on Lateline last night, warning of the consequences of growing inequality and what can be done to reverse the trend – http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2014/s4068402.htm

  56. “This might sound and be silly, but has the high dollar, with cheapo imports help to keep wage pressures down over the last few years. I know that the dollar being so high, has harmed our industrial sector. I also note, that the cost of cheap clothes is slowly rising for the first time in ages. Same goes for electric and electronics goods.

    Just a thought,. Also one cannot keep pushing down wages and welfare benefits, while lowering taxes of the wealthy and industry, without something giving way.

    How can one discuss the budget, without looking at the revenue side. Does it not start with, what is essential spending. What is debt. What is investment,

    How can discussion of the economy come down to the word deficit, without any other consideration be talked about. What does a deficit or surplus really mean, What does it really tell us.

    How does extending the gap between rich and poor, really help any economy?

    Maybe Hockey and his ilk can explain it to us.

    Maybe he can also tell us, who is the mythical taxpayers he is defending, I am a taxpayer, he is not talking about me, as I am also a full pensioner, who has worked most of my adult life.
    I might be naïve but I see government expenditure, not as a a toxic debt, but investment in the country’s future.

    Debt is used across the economy, from the household to business, to government as a means of growing the pie, is it not.

    It is not the debt that one worries about, but how it is invested.”

    I posted this on http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/?p=28688&cpage=1#comment-35405 It will be interesting to see if I get a reply or not., Not talking economics, as I suspect there is very little in the comment., Just perception on how the word “debt” and “deficit” has become what we judge successful governments by.

  57. Shane, Hockey was not even honesty enough to put forward genuine figures to back up his argument. That graph is about household wealth. Most likely to have two or more taxpayers witan the walls. Not even family income. Yes, as they say one can prove anything with a graph,

  58. What Hockey should be apologising for, is lying and treating us as fools. Burke very impressive this morning, Yes, Labor is willing to talk, even about things they do not agree with, Listed what they will not give ground on.

    I suspect Palmer will continue his games until Abbott is forced to negotiate face to face, That is how the system works, At the end, the PM has to be involved.

    Yes, Mr, Abbott, that is what PMs do. Not go looking for diversion., Back on the bike today with a comment to the Scottish, they should vote for English control, in the name of democracy.

    Mr Abbott, in two weeks the budget will still be there. What’s more, you cannot no longer put legalisation on the table. Then the real war will begin,

    Abbott popping up for second time today, Pollie ride has reached Lithgow.

  59. Yes, interesting days ahead.

    Australia’s poor treatment of asylum seekers would likely result in a royal commission and compensation claims from military personnel forced to participate in border protection operations, influential Australian businesswoman Janet Holmes a Court says.

    At a lecture in Hobart last night, Ms Holmes a Court – chair of Heytesbury, a major company with diverse interests including cattle and wine – accused successive Australian federal governments of deliberately treating asylum seekers badly in order to deter others.

    Mrs Holmes a Court also attacked what she said was the Abbott Government’s policy of deterrence and the suffering associated with it, especially on Nauru, saying it would have dire consequences for Australia.

    She said there “was bound to be a royal commission, an eventual apology and a massive compensation payout …. both for those who had been mistreated, and the military personnel who’d been made to carry out the policy…….

    http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2014-08-16/asylum-seeker-royal-commission-needed-janet-holmes-a-court-says/5675426

  60. Watching a show on the dire situation of East Timor today.

    Does not make one proud,. We owe these people so much, they asked for so little.

    I worked among many Timorese refugees that were forced to return by the Howard government. I wonder how many, on those show are among these people.

    Ask any 2nd WWW 11 soldier, what we owe these people.

    We not only sent them back, but we denied, us one o the riches country in the world, the means to make their life better.

    Do wee really need the gas from those wells, in their oceans. I think not. Not only did we deprive them of it, but also cheated them along the way.

    There people are in no way responsible for the plight they find themselves They are the victims of centuries of colonisation by other countries.

    Yes, I am sometimes ashamed of being an Australian, I like little of what they do in our name.

  61. Cannot understand Abbott’s love affair with coal, and gas to a lesser extent. If I has money, would be the last place I would invest.

  62. Florence – something to do with Indians and weddings and funding and Qld coal mines 😉 he knows which side his bread is buttered on…

  63. I don’t think so Florence. Still interesting to follow the money trail to see where it leads. Much corruption involved, I suspect, given what ICAC is revealing about how Liberal party finances work…

  64. Maybe this government is looking in the wrong places to make cuts.

    ……..The independent Parliamentary Budget Office has called into question claims health spending is spiralling out of control, noting government spending is projected to grow in line with the economy over the next decade and that health will account for only a small amount to that growth.

    The PBO projected government spending would climb from $384 billion to $682 billion over the coming decade and warned that “elevated community expectations are likely to put ongoing pressure on governments to increase discretionary spending on major programs over the medium term”.

    The PBO report also found spending on medical benefits accounts for just 1.8 per cent of the projected growth in government spending over the next decade, while spending on public hospitals accounts for just 1.4 per cent.

    In contrast, defence spending accounts for 3.2 per cent, the fourth-biggest contributor to increased government spending after the GST transfers to the states, the National Disability Insurance Scheme and the age pension.

    The disability support pension, singled out for attention in the budget, accounts for 1.1 per cent of the spending growth. The Newstart unemployment benefit, also singled out for attention, accounts for 0.3 per cent of the increased spending, while the government’s proposed paid parental leave scheme accounts for 1.1 per cent of the extra spending….

    .

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/budget-office-says-health-not-a-longterm-spending-issue-20140822-107c0y.html#ixzz3BC9POJha

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